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I'm a great believer in poetry out of the classroom, in public places, on subways, trains, on cocktail napkins. I'd rather have my poems on the subway than around the seminar table at an MFA program.

On a practical level, poetry isn't something anybody has really made a great living at. I might sell some books and, once in a while, someone might pay to hear me read.

But at the beginning it was clear to me that concrete poetry was peculiarly suited for using in public settings. This was my idea, but of course I never really much got the chance to do it.

Mostly, when I travel, I want to represent my own work well and let others know how I feel about poetry being an important part of life.

You can find poetry in your everyday life, your memory, in what people say on the bus, in the news, or just what's in your heart.

I write poems like some people sing in the bathroom.

I've done a number of readings at poetry lounges in Vancouver and Los Angeles. I've compiled a book of poetry that's completed, and two others I'm working on.

Poetry is the one place where people can speak their original human mind. It is the outlet for people to say in public what is known in private.

I used to stand on the corner in San Diego with poems sticking out of my hip pocket, asking people if there was a place where I could read poems. The audience is half of the poem.